It’s time to delve deeper into the psyche of The Batman villain The Penguin. The new series The Penguin debuts Thursday on HBO.

It takes place in the universe of Robert Pattinson‘s The Batman, and show creator Lauren LeFranc tells ABC Audio that its themes go way beyond the criminal in the comic books.

She says, “There’s a lot of themes about, you know, family and trauma and masculinity, and really a deeper examination overall as to what makes a monster and why do we engage with people who might be charming, but also really problematic and have darker sides to themselves.”

LeFranc says the series picks up a week after the events of The Batman, with a damaged Gotham City flooded as a result of The Riddler blowing up the seawall.

“Carmine Falcone, you know, very large, larger-than-life crime boss in The Batman, is dead,” she continues. “And that has sort of created a power vacuum. And Oz Cobb, played by Colin Farrell, seeks to fill it.”

What you won’t see in The Penguin is Pattinson’s Batman, which LeFranc hopes won’t be that big of a deal.

“I totally understand why people would want to see Batman or think that they would want to see Batman. You know, to me, I hope by the end of our show people don’t feel that way. They feel like we’ve serviced really interesting, engaging characters and that this show can stand on its own in that regard,” she shares.

Adds LeFranc, “I mean, of course we’re taking place in the same universe where Batman exists. The thing Matt (Reeves) and I would always say is that Batman is just a man, you know, and he can’t be everywhere. He doesn’t have Spidey sense, you know?”

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